Public Facing People Don't Exist For Your Approval
Chappell Roan can teach us a lot about holding healthy boundaries and how to treat one another both online and off
This piece was inspired by Chappel Roan, as well as my own experience with how people sometimes treat me online. Trying to answer the question, how should we behave towards celebrities and total strangers, both in real life and on the internet. I’d love to hear your thoughts about this in the comments, if you’re willing.
As always, please consider upgrading your subscription to paid. This essay took me days to write and edit, to ensure that I included everything I felt was essential. It required hours of research, as well. Supporting my work allows me to continue to do what I love, writing about the intersection of motherhood and movement within the context of the culture we live within.
If you are already a paid subscriber, thank you for your support.
I cannot stop thinking about Chappell Roan.
This is in part because I have recently discovered her music and I am obsessed. I love her artistry, her creativity, and her fearlessness in songwriting. I admire how true to herself she is, as a performer and also, as a human being. Plus, her songs are just so so so good. Phenomenal pop with a little sugar and a lot of spice.
I also find myself thinking about her choice to create and hold boundaries for herself, while calling out inappropriate behavior from her fans.
About a month ago, she posted a video to her TikTok account, saying this directly to the camera:
“If you saw a random woman on the street, would you yell at her from the car window? Would you harass her in public? Would you go up to a random lady and say, ‘can I get a photo with you?’
Would you be offended if she says no to your time because she has her own time?
Would you stalk her family? Would you follow her around?
I’m a random bitch. You’re a random bitch. Just think about that for a second, ok? I don’t care that this kind of behavior comes with the job. The career field I’ve chosen. That does not make it ok. That doesn’t make it normal. That doesn’t mean I want it. That doesn’t mean I like it.
I don’t give a fuck if you think it is selfish for me to say no to a photo or for your time or for a hug.
It’s weird how people think that you know a person just because you see them online and you listen to the art they make. That’s fucking weird.”
When I first heard that she’d done this, my immediate response was to fist pump the air. And the second was, “how are people going to respond to this?”
And for the most part, people have impressed me.
Much of the conversation about Chappell Roan setting boundaries between her personal and professional life has been on social media. Because of course it is. That’s where so many conversations with strangers happen these days.
What differentiates the conversations is who is having them and where they are being held.
When Amanda Palmer posted about Chappell Roan on facebook, the comments were entirely supportive, which is what I’d expect. Amanda Palmer is one of the artists who basically invented crowd sourced art, starting with busking as the 8 foot bride in Cambridge to her kickstarter to self-produce one of her albums to her patreon, which has been going strong since 2015.
Palmer has built a community of fans who genuinely support her as an artist, but who also feel more intimately connected with her because of how she chooses to engage with them. As a result of her patreon model, she has done more private and small scale events, allowing those who have paid for the access to those smaller, more intimate shows to have more contact with her..
She also regularly engages with her patrons, as well as fans, on facebook, instagram, and patreon. Palmer does this because she actually likes being in community with her patrons and fans. She is creating for herself, but also for them. It’s not a one-way connection. It’s an ongoing artistic conversation and collaboration because she built it that way.
Her fans understand what it means to respect an artists personal space because Palmer is really good at drawing the line between her work and her private life. Even though those lines can blur slightly sometimes, it’s usually because she chooses to allow that blur. Not because fans overstep.
On the other hand, when George Takei posted about Chappell Roan setting boundaries, the comments were more of a mixed bag.
“What did she expect?” many ask. “Doesn’t she understand this comes with the territory of fame?”
On YouTube, the comments were somewhat supportive, but the negative comments were louder and even worse. Which is what I expect from YouTube. Of all of the platforms where you can share content, YouTube has fewer restrictions and users often behave as if it’s the wild west.
YouTube user, klownck, writes, “Nah, you sold your soul and now the public own you. That is how the transaction works. Always has.”
Another YouTube user, papisanchez8073, has a lot to say about this. “With that attitude, you won’t be famous long,” he writes in one comment. And he follows up with, “If you don’t like the responsibility that comes with fame, maybe you shouldn’t pursue a famous career because those people that spend their hard earn money on your art (are) all (the) reason you can exist in this world of fame fortune! as long as they’re being respectful and asking politely that shouldn’t be an issue that’s just what comes with the territory.”
This comment from YouTube user, jeffwallace2591 ends with what feels a bit like a threat, “No ppl wouldn't but you said the word "random" celebs aren't random..no it doesn't make it okay but u said it u signed up for it and ppl love and look up to u and wanna talk to u and take pics. Get used to it.”
It’s that “get used to it,” that not only sounds like a very menacing warning but also a directive.
I think my favorite disgusting comment that someone makes about Chappell Roan is this one from tara-lynjackson717, which reads, “You need to be humbled! Those fans made you and your career! It’s weird that you don’t see that you’re sounding ungrateful. Yes honey there are boundaries with every job and sometimes you may need to say no to a pic or a hug from a fan. But it’s not everyday a fan gets to meet their fave artist! Deal with it diva or step down! Someone else would be more than happy to take your place! Hope you invest your money well because your attitude won’t keep you around very long. You could be known as another one hit wonder! God bless.”
It’s equal parts, “you deserve this, you ungrateful pond scum,” and “you’re nothing. you can be replaced.”
To say these comments surprise me would be a lie.
I’ve received comments like this on videos I’ve shared on YouTube, too. I’m not nearly as visible as Chappell Roan, but I’ve had a YouTube channel since 2018 to help support my yoga and movement career, as well as more recently, my writing.
A few days ago, I shared a video that was inspired by a piece I wrote here on substack called “More Than 10 Things I Hate About Motherhood.” I created a video that I could share on both Instagram and YouTube that might direct new folks to my writing here.
This is a fairly common content creation practice across the online business spectrum. If you want new people to see and potentially support your work, you need to not only have an online presence but it needs to be somewhat broad — essentially casting a wider, but intentional net. Some folks do podcasts in addition to their substack or blog; I have a YouTube channel because the primary medium I work with as a movement professional is visual.
In a YouTube short, you have less than 60 seconds to get an idea across. You can watch the whole thing here on YouTube (substack won’t embed it). But essentially, the video I shared is of me at the sink, washing my vitamix (of all things). The words, “Things I Hate About Motherhood” appear on the middle of the screen. Then I add some of the things that frustrate me about motherhood — the constant complaining, the refusal to help with household chores, the bedtime drama. But it also morphs into other things, like lack of postpartum support, limited or unaffordable childcare, and that I can’t protect my kids from bullies.
I end with “no matter how hard I try, I always feel like I’m failing.”
I directed folks to the description to read more and also the link to my substack, to read the essay. But I knew that very few people would go there. And I definitely expected some nasty comments. I was not disappointed.
YouTube user L-jn7ne wrote this delightful comment, “I waited til the end hoping you would list the things you liked but nope. Just complaints. One day your children may see this and feel unwanted or like a burden. Think before you post. This isnt a diary.”
Because moms are never allowed to complain about their kids without also offering a “but I love them so much, those adorable rascals. They make me a better human. Live, laugh, love!!! #blessed!!!”
YouTube user mar.essa13 wrote me this gem, “I couldn’t imagine having this level of ungratefulness in my heart for the family I made. I could go on a rant of (how) awful this is but I think you should have that self realization on your own… best of luck to you. May go be with you, blew your heart.”
I can only assume that she meant to write “May God be with you, bless your heart.” Not unlike how tara-lynjackson717 addressed Chappell Roan in her YouTube comment.
Why is it that the harshest critics online also want to bless us? Is it residual guilt for saying mean things to strangers? Is it similar to saying “bless you” when someone sneezes? Is it the opposite of a compliment sandwich? You know when someone slides criticism in between 2 compliments, only in this case it’s assumption, judge, and “bless your heart.”
Anyway, there are other things that come up for me here, because this also isn’t my first online judgment rodeo.
Since my work requires me to be visible online, I’ve been sharing online for a long time and have received negative comments pretty much since the beginning.
People seem to think that if you share something online that it’s entirely ok to respond disrespectfully, antagonistically, and even offensively.
Recently, I shared a note on substack about someone who has been harassing me online for years. The stalking and harassment started offline, when I was a new yoga teacher in my early twenties, teaching public classes at yoga studios in the DC area. The harassment and stalking has continued since then, only now it’s online, as my teaching and writing has moved there almost exclusively.
In the note, I shared about receiving a notification of a new paid subscriber, only to discover it was the guy who has been harassing me for years — just with an email address that I didn’t recognize because he frequently uses new and different emails to get access to me after I’ve blocked the ones I am familiar with.
I refunded his money and banned him, but it still felt like a blow — both to my professional excitement about a new paid subscriber, as well as to my sense of safety on this platform, which has otherwise felt like a much safer space than all of the other places I exist online.
The note went viral, at least viral for me, with over 2000 likes, over 100 restacks, and over 100 comments — and still counting.
Apparently what I shared struck a chord with a lot of people, which feels good because it means I communicated clearly and with integrity but it also feels shitty because it means that what I wrote landed with many folks on a personal level.
Lots of people, mostly women, shared their own stories of experiencing harassment, stalking, and unwanted attention from men.
Some folks simply offered their support of what I shared, showing kindness and concern for my well being, as well as rage that this is such a widespread issue that is not often taken seriously.
A few folks, however, said things in the “not all men” vein, accusing me of calling all men evil and generalizing about an issue that impacts all people, not just women. “Women stalk, too” they said. “Stop saying mean things about men,” was the general vibe with a dash of, “are you sure he was really harassing you?”
And one person made several comments that link back to Chappell Roan and the idea of what public facing people should expect both online and off.
This person wrote, “If you can say what you think, so can I. If you put yourself out there, you have to be ready for what comes.”
They continued with, “If he keeps annoying you and you keep posting, it sounds like a game for two players. You can’t get him to stop so you have to learn to enjoy it or stop doing it.”
I’m not often shocked by things that people say on the internet, but this one got to me.
The first thing they say is just that by simply existing online, I leave myself open for all commentary, all behaviors, and all actions that other people take. That in fact, I am responsible for their comments, behaviors, and actions because of choosing to exist publicly online.
The second thing they suggest is that if I can’t get him to stop harassing me, I should either learn to like the harassment or stop doing what I’m doing — essentially, they suggest I stop doing a job that requires me to exist publicly online.
This whole thing screams of rape culture. It’s the “you wore a short skirt, what did you think was going to happen?” argument.
It’s the idea that if we want to create art in a public way that we should not only expect to receive a certain level of harassment, but that we should accept it willingly. That we should allow it to happen and maybe even be glad that it’s happening because it means we have arrived.
And this is at the core of what I think is so wrong and so broken about how we engage with public figures — people who exist in the public eye because of the work they choose to do.
I think there’s a belief that people who exist in the public eye, whether they are movie stars or musicians or politicians or even small scale movement pros like me, belong to the world. It’s not so much that some private citizens believe that public facing folks don’t deserve privacy, it’s more that they seem to believe that attention comes with the job description. And that perhaps part of the reason we exist in a public way is because we want attention.
Which is an interesting take.
And maybe some public facing folks do. But I think the majority, even bigger stars like Chappell Roan, do it because they love what they do and it happens to require a lot more visibility than your average person.
This belief also concludes that because people who are in public facing jobs choose these jobs, knowing that they will be highly visible, they need to be willing to tolerate the abuse that comes along with it.
I think it’s also important to add here that although I do think this applies to public figures generally, I think women tend to bear the brunt of this behavior.
Lots of folks might disagree with me and that’s ok.
However there’s a lot of evidence, both anecdotal and research-based, to show otherwise.
From a research-based perspective, there are many studies about how women receive higher levels of criticism than men. According to one study, 76% of high achieving women receive negative feedback for their work as compared to just 2% of men.1
This might seem like a small thing, but it points to a much larger idea that men are allowed to get away with all sorts of behavior without comment, judgment, or any acknowledgement of fault.
There’s also the matter of laws enacted in this country that do not give women and men equal rights over their bodies.
Women all across America are being denied health care because of abortion laws that prevent doctors from doing anything that could remotely be considered abortion. This has resulted in at least one death (that we are aware of) since Roe was overturned2, as well as many near death experiences and in some cases, the inability to have more children. Other women have told stories of having to carry non-viable but very wanted pregnancies to term and those stories are just as brutal.3
Honestly, when you look at this more broadly, are there any circumstances in which a man is not allowed to make health decisions about his own body? Or ones in which doctors will refuse to operate on him to save his life?
In my note, I also talk about how men are taught to believe that women’s bodies are property, which many men disagreed with.
But these laws prove otherwise.
And all you have to do is look at the current criminal trial in France about the man who invited other men to rape his wife while she was drugged and unconscious. He did this for 10 years before he was caught — for doing something different, but also violating (recording video up women’s skirts in grocery stores).4
It is believed that over 100 men raped his wife, but only 50 have been caught and are criminally charged. Several of these men don’t believe they did anything wrong. “He invited us to do it,” they say. “That’s not rape. That’s consent.”
This indicates that they don’t believe they need her consent. Just her husbands consent. If you can’t read between the lines it’s because her consent is irrelevant to them as long as her husband says it’s a-ok, which sounds a hell of a lot like thinking she is his property.
And what about the 3 men who chose to walk away when they discovered she was unconscious but still did not contact the police? What about the hundreds or thousands of men who saw the husband make this offer on a website and said nothing?
Until that changes. Until our laws change here in the US. Until the Equal Rights Amendment is passed. Until women are believed. Until harassment and stalking are taken seriously before someone is physically attacked. Until the criminal penalty for rape and sexual assault is the same as murder. Don’t come at me with “not all men.”
Lastly, men are socialized to believe that they matter more than women. Take a super basic example: children’s books. Did you know that male characters outnumber female characters in children’s books? This is especially true of non-human characters, which are more frequently given male pronouns and male names.5
This, again, might seem like a small thing but it has ripple effects. Boys see themselves represented everywhere; girls do not. Boys grow up believing that their voices are worthy of being heard; girls have to fight to be heard.
I could go on and on and on with the many ways that men are socialized to believe that they are entitled to certain things, including women’s time and energy and attention.
But I won’t because instead, we can go right back to Chappell Roan.
Because I think that if this was Shawn Mendes or Harry Styles saying these things, no one would still be talking about it.
Instead the fact that it’s a women — a queer woman, in fact, saying that she deserves to have space between her professional life and her personal life, makes all of the difference.
People would prefer she just let them bulldoze her. Let them violate her space when she is not “on the clock.” People don’t want her to say “no” and to have clear boundaries. They want her submissive, malleable, compliant, and accommodating.
This is what they want from all women, after all.
Personally, I love that Chappell Roan is refusing to back down. I love that she is speaking out about the fact that it’s not ok to treat anyone this way.
What’s interesting is that she asks this question at the beginning of her tiktok, “If you saw a random woman on the street, would you yell at her from the car window? Would you harass her in public?”
And the truth is, this happens to women every single day.
Chappell Roan does not deserve to be treated this way, not just because she is a celebrity and a public facing person, but because she is a human being.
What needs to stop is the glorification of rape-culture behavior.
The “well, you wanted to be famous. Stop complaining about getting attention. They’re fans. They made you who you are. Give them what they want.”
A beautiful example of pushback to this was Jenna Ortega telling Winona Ryder that she didn’t have to remove her sunglasses just because the paparazzi were pressuring her to at the Beetlejuice premiere.6 Gen Z is crushing it with setting and holding boundaries in this way.
What if we had different expectations of public facing people? What if we remember that public facing people are simply doing a job and likely one that they love, but not one that requires them to be available for comment, attention, judgment 24 hours a day?
What if we remember that human beings existing publicly online, for their career or otherwise, are real people behind the screen? Real people worthy of kindness, compassion, and safe space — even if you disagree with something they’ve said online (so long as what they’ve said is not a threat to your own safety or health).
People in public facing jobs don’t exist for the approval of fans or the general public.7
Holding boundaries is healthy.
Saying no is an absolutely acceptable answer to a request, whether it’s a photo or a hug or anything else.
Or in my case, with the person who has harassed me for 18 years, me saying no to going to lunch with him.
And the “no” should be enough.
I look forward to the day when “no” is enough and doesn’t result in pushback or penalty for the person who says it.
The details of the study are behind a paywall, unfortunately, here. But there is also a fascinating article about gender bias at work which illustrates how women are punished for trying to “behave more like men” and men are punished for “not behaving like men are expected to behave” by Stanford Graduate School of Business. Look at that if you’re curious here.
Amber Nicole Thurman would be alive if Georgia doctors had treated her when she first arrived at the ER. Here’s one article about what happened to her.
You can read about some of the horrific experiences of women carrying non-viable pregnancies to term here but there are so many stories, this is just the tip of the iceberg.
I think this includes politicians, although I didn’t go into great detail here because it’s very complex. You can disagree with someone’s policies and their stances without directly attacking their lifestyle — unless it stands in contradiction with the policies they create. It’s the “these laws apply to certain people, but not me” that becomes a problem.
Here’s a de-paywalled link if it is of help! https://archive.is/hsGsC
And thank you. 🙏🏻